E60 M57N TU 525d EGR issues

Discussion in '5 Series' started by ssd, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. ssd
    Offline

    ssd

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    I have a E60 525d with the M57N TU engine that has had an increased emissions warning and reduced power warning but when the engine gets to 60 degrees the reduced power warning goes out. Increased emission warning stays. Reduced power warning comes back on when re-started from cold but not when still warm/hot.

    Pulled the codes using INPA 4212, 4222, 4232, 4242, 4252, 4262, 4501 and 93BD, D68E

    I have checked the the glow plugs and replaced two faulty ones (from an earlier code 4222, 4252) Checked electrical power at GP module. I have tried two replacement GP controllers (both BMW but not new - known to be working) EGR cooler, throttle body, EGR valve cleaned.

    It does have strong smell of diesel fumes wafting outside (know what this smells like as the stainless steel one was cracked and it smelt the same but since then I have put in cast iron manifold on)

    Need help on this one.
     
  2. bishbosh
    Offline

    bishbosh WARLORD

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,640
    Likes Received:
    589
    Ratings:
    +943 / 3 / -1
    Has the cat/dpf been gutted at all? That could account for the smell of fumes.

    If not, then I would check the engine bay for a leak somewhere, should be evident with soot showing.

    The stainless steel 'what' was cracked?
     
  3. ssd
    Offline

    ssd

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Hi bishbosh, thanks for the reply,

    The cat not been gutted and is the original done 215k miles and there a straight through pipe fitted instead of dpf. Sorry I meant stainless steel exhaust manifold was cracked so I changed it for a cast iron one.

    Had a look around the turbo pipes looked ok - will check with a mirror the exhaust manifold The flexi after the cat is worn but no obvious signs of soot.

    Wonder why the reduced power goes off exactly after temp gets to 60c??
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  4. Jonnyg123
    Offline

    Jonnyg123

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    56
    Ratings:
    +68 / 0 / -0
    Where are you based ?
     
  5. ssd
    Offline

    ssd

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Birmingham area


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  6. Jonnyg123
    Offline

    Jonnyg123

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    56
    Ratings:
    +68 / 0 / -0
    Same there’s a good Indy here in mcr
     
  7. ssd
    Offline

    ssd

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Yeah that would have been useful mate, but never mind - haven’t had chance to see if the pipes are leaking as trying to find a way of testing for leaks from the turbo side via the pipe through the inter cooler to the egr side.

    Anyone know done this; apart from the visual aspect?
     
  8. ssd
    Offline

    ssd

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Still chasing this fix - managed to sort the 4501 (increased emissions) now only have the glow plug activation interruption codes (4212, 4222, 4232, 4242, 4252, 4262) have swapped to two OE controllers no fix; tested glow plugs through the connector block all okay within spec.

    Error clears when engine warms - can reproduced the error temporarily when engine hot so thinking it is an electrical fault as the test switches on the preheater for 5sec

    And to help me get started will someone measure their MAP sensor signal wire (pin 3) to earth voltage and tell me what voltage value please

    I am getting 1V engine off key on? it drops when vacuum is applied but not sure if it is meant to be near supply voltage (5V) intially then come down when vacuum sensed.

    My thinking that there might be short to ground on the wiring is pulling the voltage down enough for the glow plug controller to drop too...and when engine warms the controller is used less and then fault goes.

    Not 100% but its taken so long to get this far.

    Swapped to a replacement MAF no change still shows fault on start up

    upload_2020-9-20_10-8-4.png

    Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  9. JasonH
    Offline

    JasonH

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    97
    Ratings:
    +173 / 0 / -1
    The glowplug controller "failure" is often a burnt or corroded connector to the controller - where it plugs in.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. JasonH
    Offline

    JasonH

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    97
    Ratings:
    +173 / 0 / -1
    With ISTA, DIS and maybe INPA you can read the live values of all the sensors to check they're all giving sensible values.

    If you have a pressure sensor fault you will definitely get a fault code for it.

    Glow plug fault codes whilst irritating have no effect on the driveability of the the car and won't cause limp home mode.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Wynne71
    Offline

    Wynne71 WARLORD Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2019
    Messages:
    3,968
    Likes Received:
    1,771
    Location:
    West Midlands
    Ratings:
    +2,604 / 1 / -3
    Just a thought, have you tired to disconnect the battery, leave for an hour then reconnect. A hard reset of the ECU can help such codes/faults. It then relearns the engine and fuelling etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. ssd
    Offline

    ssd

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Thanks Jason and Wynne - appreciate your replies. I spend every free minute I have either researching or trying things so new ideas are more than welcome.

    Jason - i had checked the alternator to controller feed and no sign of corrosion or burning and it had continuity (and 12V) so think I could discount it, and I agree the MAP is not showing up any codes so probably okay, but I was curious what the signal voltage might be as mine at 1 volt seemed low. Agree the car does not limp and has power but the half engine reduced power bong is annoying each time I get in while the engine is cold.

    I have used INPA and DIS to get some readings and they seem in spec. Charge air is 999mBar and it reads 995mBar for example. Smooth running for injectors are fine - I'd swapped a faulty one couple of months ago. If you have any specific checks to do then happy to try.

    Wynne - the battery is weak in itself but when changed a few years ago I got a 970A EN BOSCH one and last check it gave about 772A with 3.23 mOhms internal resistance so has about 57% of life left. I think the BMW orginal for my car was around 700A . I have charged the battery out of the car and the codes were present before and came back straight after - but no harm in giving your suggestion a go.

    Any thing further you think of please throw my way as I am :banghead:
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  13. JasonH
    Offline

    JasonH

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    97
    Ratings:
    +173 / 0 / -1
    On a Ford a battery disconnect does do this. On a BMW it has no effect on the DDE (engine ECU). It can however upset the anti-trap function for the windows and sunroof but that's it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. JasonH
    Offline

    JasonH

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    97
    Ratings:
    +173 / 0 / -1
    Could you recap on which faults you still have and what exactly happens when you start the engine and drive the car.

    You seem to just be listing glow plug fault codes but they should have no effect, certainly not in the UK. My car ran perfectly for over a year with no glow plug operation because the controller was dead.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. ssd
    Offline

    ssd

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Thanks Jason

    On cold start I get half engine symbol on dash and on idrive - engine fault reduced power warning. Pull the codes I only get all glow plugs ones (4212, 4222, 4232, 4242, 4252, 4262)

    Starts fine and runs ok - but at exactly 60 degrees C (ive checked by watching the coolant temp live every time) the warning goes and it reports no faults.

    Hot or warm start no warning (codes still show) - cold start get warning
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  16. JasonH
    Offline

    JasonH

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    97
    Ratings:
    +173 / 0 / -1
    Are you reading the codes with ISTA or DIS? If so then it really must be glow plug related.

    If not it could even be something like a gearbox fault code.

    Now dead glow plugs and dead glow plug controllers don't usually affect the car but I wonder if you have a short circuit or open circuit in the comms to the glow plug controller. The DDE is then throwing a wobbler.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. JasonH
    Offline

    JasonH

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    97
    Ratings:
    +173 / 0 / -1
    Without looking at a wiring diagram and from distant memory I expect the glow plug comms connector to have 0V, 12V or 5V and then 1 or 2 data lines. You'd need an oscilloscope to see the data lines doing what they do.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. ssd
    Offline

    ssd

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Using DIS (double checked with INPA gave same codes - I think glow plug to be honest too as of yesterday because I was running DIS to do some live readings etc and did the preheater test (where DIS activates the preheating for 5 seconds) and immediately the bong and engine fault warning popped up but because the engine was warm the warning went off once the test finished.

    Test outcomes - signal interrupted terminal 30 continuous positive at preheating control unit or break in all lines to the heater plugs

    I was using TIS to view the preheater wiring

    https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/.../preheating-system/preheating-control/tSohAKA
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  19. JasonH
    Offline

    JasonH

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    97
    Ratings:
    +173 / 0 / -1
    It must be the wiring to the controller, chaffed through and or shorted/trapped somewhere.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. ssd
    Offline

    ssd

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Okay - I was checking just the lines to the glow plugs

    Might see if the wiring from the gp controller has lines back to the DDE then.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020

Share This Page