‘Caught’ but do have I to pay?

Discussion in 'General chat' started by Merc? No. BM!, Nov 9, 2019.

  1. Merc? No. BM!
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    Merc? No. BM! WARLORD Site Supporter

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    After dropping off a work colleague at the airport I decided to have a bit of food at a service area nearby. It’s something I regularly do so don’t even look at the signage at the car park.

    This time I decided to do some work in the car so stayed longer than usual but had no idea I had passed the free parking period of two hours.

    Resulting in a parking charge sent to me by ParkingEye for £100 “discounted to £60 if paid within 14 days”.
    I have now deleted their main page with photo, just to be safe.
    6351824A-F287-490F-9A4F-152FDD809EDB.jpeg


    Am I legally obligated to pay this you think? The wording doesn’t seem to stress that, apart from apparently being bound by the rules and regulations.

    Any legal eagles or others here with experience of this sort of charge?
    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  2. snrbrtsn
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    snrbrtsn WARLORD Site Supporter

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    I’d be every bit as frustrated and devise a method to avoid payment
    I’d be looking for till receipt or proof of chip and pin payment and raising an appeal with the company explaining the reason for your overstay

    https://www.parkingeye.co.uk/motori...tly-asked-questions/appealing-parking-charge/
    I’d also be racking through brain and checking if the signage is clear
    Thereafter I’d be perusing the google search engine for template letters of appeal, copying and submitting, obviously only if your reason was genuine
     
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  3. Abh29
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    Abh29 Site Supporter

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  4. Mieke
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    Mieke WARLORD Site Supporter

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    Companies like Parking Eye are the scourge of every town and city in the country. Over recent years, they appear to have taken control of parking at every retail park. Last year we were refurbishing a couple of bedrooms and went to Dunelm to purchase bedding and custom made curtains etc. So ended up spending quite a lot of time in the store. A few days later I received a penalty notice of £70 from Parking Eye stating that I had exceeded the maximum 2 hours by 10 minutes. I had no idea that it was a restricted car park as the signage was so poor. I was furious and on my next visit to Dunelm I got hold of the manager, and let him know in no uncertain terms that if he expected to receive my business, he would do something about the parking penalty. He was quite apologetic and said that he would sort it as they had an exemption list for staff vehicles. I never heard any more.

    So my advice would be to have a word with a manager at the service area to see if they can get the penalty cancelled.

    Good luck!
     
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  5. jwilalex
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    jwilalex

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    Throw it in the bin, don’t acknowledge anything and don’t admit anything. You will get a further 2 or 3 letters through normal post, and same detail for them. They won’t pursue it’s too costly, plus they have no proof you ever received the letters because they never send them recorded delivery. If it went to court they can’t claim it lost them any money because the parking is free to begin with so regardless you occupied a space for more than 2 hours it would have to have been the last occupied space in the car park with everyone over 2 hours and you the “first” expected to leave.

    Ride it out and answer or reply to nothing. Even when it waffles on about doubling the fees! Final demand blah blah....
     
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  6. Singvogel
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    Singvogel Moderator WARLORD Site Supporter

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    Apologies for the long post, but there is no short answer.

    By staying 2 hours and 36 minutes, Parking Eye will claim you have breached the contract you (unwittingly) entered into with them, and therefore owe them a £100 charge.

    Parking Eye are quite litigious and have won many cases in the English County Courts. They have achieved this by sending trained solicitors to argue the case against untrained and, often naive, members of the public.

    You do NOT need to pay this - but ignoring is not a wise option.

    This is one of my 'speciality subjects' but the last time it was discussed on the forum I received a lot of stick from a few members who seemed to think that private parking companies were acting correctly and fairly.

    In addition to checking on the pepipoo site mentioned by @Abh29 I would suggest that you read the info for newbies (third sticky down - which is regularly updated to reflect changes in the law, and current trends) on the MSE site:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

    and also see Parking Cowboys info here:

    https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/parking-eye/

    I see the words 'penalty charge' used frequently to describe these tickets/letters that people receive.

    This is not a penalty charge - only police, courts and local councils can issue penalties (or fines)

    At best it could perhaps be called a 'parking charge' - but in reality this is a 'speculative invoice' for transgressing some arbitrary conditions thought up by in this case Parking Eye - a well known private parking company who are interested solely in maximising their profits.

    Unless one lives in Scotland or Northern Ireland where such invoices can be safely totally ignored, then a response is needed.

    If ignored, due to 'Keeper Liability' in England and Wales, this nonsense can land up in court and a judgement (CCJ) against the keeper - even without their knowledge or response to the court.

    Yes, one could contact the manager of the Welcome Break, but he/she is likely to pass the buck, telling you to appeal to Parking Eye.

    Parking Eye will reject any and all appeals relating to what happened on the day and any extenuating circumstances - they just want your MONEY.

    Please read the MSE info and come back with your 'plan of action'.

    In the meantime do NOT contact Parking Eye until you are sure of the facts and your rights.

    When eventually you draft a response, remember to refer only to 'the driver' - do not say 'I parked' or 'I stayed'.

    Keep it all in the third person.

    This is a game and you need to play by the rules that will 100% allow you to beat this scam.

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are just money grabbing scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's data base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

    Again apologies for the lengthy reply.

    Feel free to contact me by DM/Conversation if you wish.

    For anyone not wanting to dig so deep into this scam an informative intro to the subject is to be found in the first few paragraphs here:

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/
     
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  7. K777
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    K777 WARLORD Site Supporter

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    1st message ??? come on own up, who's set up a bogus login to vent without being named ?? lol


    Anyway, don't ignore it, if your like the majority of us law abiding ( speeding excluded), see if there's a way to get you of it via the suggested websites.

    I once got one of my guys off because the signage did not cover where he parked, I couldn't get the guy off who denied seeing any signs - google earth showed he'd parked on top of the 3ft letters saying don't park here.
    And finally my biz partner got caught parked for 2 minutes in front of a Greggs, under the 8ft sign saying don't park here. We see people parked there every day, they must be making 20 x £60 per day.

    Its a bummer, but 99.99% of the time you are not the first, so they have already tied up any errors in the signage etc.
     
  8. Singvogel
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    Singvogel Moderator WARLORD Site Supporter

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    These Private Parking Companies don't care much for the legalities of their signage and tickets - or keeping them up to date - permission for erecting them and illumination etc. etc.

    The example I often give is at a Welcome Break on the M6 which has signs warning that if you park for more their silly limit or even overhang the bay - YOUR CAR WILL BE CLAMPED - that of course has been illegal since 2012 in England and Wales (since 1992 in Scotland where clamping on private land is deemed theft)

    They are literally making millions from the innocent and naieve who pay up without question that they give up easily on the well informed, who appeal using the correct format.

    On several websites there are sample templates which, if followed to the letter, have a near 100% success rate of getting the ticket cancelled.

    I campaign against the unfair scam tickets which have no basis in law and simply exploit the unwary and innocent who may overstay by only a few minutes or may fail to display a a ticket purchased from a machine that has fallen off the windscreen (some companies have been filmed shaking a car to get the ticket to fall)

    Also those who have perhaps entered a digit incorrectly on a pay and display site.

    The list of innocent errors is endless, and appealing to the PPCs on what extenuating circumstances prevailed on the day is a waste of time.

    But I have no sympathy or support for those who park in disabled bays without a blue badge (even if the info with the badge tells you they are only valid for on-street parking and council car-parks)

    Nor for those who park in a supermarket car-park in the suburbs, then take a bus in to the town centre, either for work or shopping, leaving their car at Tescos/Sainsburys etc. for the whole day.
     
  9. edthefed
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    edthefed Site Supporter

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    My wife got a ticket from Leeds Council on Saturday, for parking outside the lines in a council car park...despite a blue badge being clearly displayed and the disabled bays being full of cars not displaying blue badges !

    Also some serious doubt as to whether the area is actually a car park as claimed by the CEO

    Letter of appeal already gone in
     
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  10. K777
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    K777 WARLORD Site Supporter

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    Which one, they have that at John Charles stadium.

    Also the Greggs i was on about is on Geldard Road near BMW and Porsche - don't park next to the shop if you ever call in there.


    Presumably as a blue badge holder you would be allowed to park outside the lines anyway, is that why you have appealed ?
     
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  11. Cotswold BMW
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    Cotswold BMW WARLORD Site Sponsor

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    I've had 3 private firm tickets over the years. Never paid any :whistle:

    Council ones on the other hand, I pay them asap
     
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  12. edthefed
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    edthefed Site Supporter

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    Rich...

    Playhouse Square at the front of the Playhouse.

    The blue badged is clearly visible in the photos supplied by the council and the ticket is for parking outside the marked bay..

    The appeal is on a number of grounds including the blue badge being clearly displayed
     
  13. edthefed
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    edthefed Site Supporter

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    Result...
    Ticket issued by Leeds Council 1507 Saturday
    Letter of appeal posted Monday
    Email received this evening...ticket cancelled and we will hear no more.

    The councils email is riddled with errors and inconsistencies and they clearly have not fully read the letter of appeal but we won !
     
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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019 at 8:17 AM
  14. Merc? No. BM!
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    Merc? No. BM! WARLORD Site Supporter

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    Do you know if these companies were members of a Parking Association?
    And did you appeal at all?
     
  15. Cotswold BMW
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    Cotswold BMW WARLORD Site Sponsor

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    The first 2 were not, so I did nothing and never received anything in the post.
    The most recent one was but as it was in Sainsbury's car park, I approached the store manager who sided with me and had the ticket cancelled
     
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  16. Kev2005
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    Kev2005 WARLORD Site Supporter Good Egg

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  17. isleaiw
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    isleaiw

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    I am old school, you did the “crime”, now do the time. Seriously, it’s a few quid and you admit you were there for a time that meant you should have paid. Seems fair enough to me...

    Would you go in a restaurant, eat the food and then try and find a reason not to pay? Thought not....
     
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  18. Mieke
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    Mieke WARLORD Site Supporter

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    I totally disagree with that statement. You can hardly say that £100 charge for 2 1/2 hours parking is reasonable.
    Once you exceed the maximum stated time, then you get hammered. It's a SCAM and should be stopped. :mad:
     
  19. mach one
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    mach one WARLORD Site Supporter

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    what sort of car parks charge £100.00 for half an hours parking ? first two hours free half an hours overstay £100.00

    the terms of parking at welcome break say "Car parking charges apply after a free 2 hour period. Following the first 2 hours, cars are required to pay £15 for 2–24 hours, at all Welcome Break locations." so the charge should have been £15.00 plus admin fee so if the speculative invoice had been for £25.00 then that may have been a little more palatable but £100.00 is just a total rip off
     
  20. Merc? No. BM!
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    Merc? No. BM! WARLORD Site Supporter

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    There was no crime, there is no fine.
     
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